Future On Deck
What if the future isn’t something that happens to us, but something we build together? Future on Deck lives at the intersection of social innovation, human potential, and radical imagination. Each episode is an open invitation to dream out loud, challenge what we think we know, and co-create solutions for a world not yet built. Hosted by Sam Mellerson and Tshaka Barrows of the Haywood Burns Institute.
The future cannot wait!
Future On Deck
Why a podcast? And why now?
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Have you thought about doing a podcast, but found it difficult to get started? So did we! In this episode, Sam Mellerson and Tshaka Barrows bring in their producer Nathan Fink, to have an honest conversation about the decision to do a podcast and what they are learning along the way. Each of them shares how the podcast has created moments of growth, discomfort and vulnerability while also providing a space for authentic conversations full of joy and laughter. Check it out and let us know what you think. Will you start the thing you've been putting off? We hope so!
You can act consistently. What you call a human potential is not of any kind of measurable limit. It can go as far as you desire, or as far as you have the courage to go.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Future Undeck, a podcast exploring the intersection of human potential and social innovation. I'm Sam Melderson.
SPEAKER_03And I'm Shaka Barrow, and we are co-host and co-executive directors of the Hayward Burns Institute, a national nonprofit that facilitates community-centered solutions to address systemic barriers.
SPEAKER_02We've worked in over 300 counties across the country to address institutional racism and the social control of communities of color.
SPEAKER_03And we are going to take time on this journey together to explore a vision for a world that works for all of us.
SPEAKER_02Journey with us is we build a future world together.
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to Future on Deck, a podcast where we dig into the human potential that we all have that collectively we're trying to achieve. And in this series, we thought we'd take a day and break in the flow to actually reflect on the podcast itself. So how are you doing today, Sam? How are you feeling?
SPEAKER_02I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. I'm looking forward to the conversation. It's funny as I look back and think about the journey forward, all the things that we're pulling together, how we talk about creating a better future world. Today is gonna feel like it's hitting on one of the main ingredients for me, which is vulnerability. And so I, you know, we're bringing our listeners behind the scenes, probably uh to where we are in our most raw, unknowing, and um following our faithful leader in this case, who I'm excited to introduce. And this is our super producer, uh Nathan Fink, who is also the chief advancement officer at Family Connects, another national nonprofit. Most importantly, though, he is a husband and father of two boys, eight and ten. So you already know he has superpowers. So let's welcome in Nathan and talk a little, tell tell our crew a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. I so appreciate the invite. And you know, of course, I've been here with you, but not with you, kind of behind you.
SPEAKER_02Pushing us, pushing us very hard from behind.
SPEAKER_05I do, I mean, I appreciate the space to come forward and and it's it's brighter out here. Yeah, so as you mentioned, yeah, I'm a father of two. I I think that's how I identify first. And yes, I do work as a chief advancement officer at Family Connects, an evidence-based nurse home visiting model. So the whole idea is that there's only one criteria, and it's that you have a baby, and it's the hardest thing you can do. So, what we do is follow you with a nurse for up to four visits just to make sure you're healing. Oh, beautiful, your family's doing well. And it's super personal for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, that's beautiful. What important work. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so we we wanted to just dig in on like why the podcast and who who better to invite in than really the person who helped us to get it started. You know, we had talked about doing this for some time, and you know, we're like, Yeah, we should totally do a podcast. It would be a great way to connect with people. And and it was just hard to get out of the conversation and into the flow of it.
SPEAKER_02And so well, and most people would talk us out of it during the conversation, so that's an important, important part.
SPEAKER_03Because that was a big hurdle. It's just I would I call it overcooking the meal. Totally, you know what I mean? It's like it's time to eat, all right? The food is done, you know, but we're still in the kitchen talking about this and that. Do we need to add this? And then eventually it starts to not taste right. It feels like, wait, what are we doing?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I mean, listen, first of all, I've known you now for a few years, maybe three years now, and we started knowing each other by having you on a podcast that at that time I was hosting, and this was for PCA America's 2025 conference podcast called The Shift. And, you know, as we started talking about people who are moving the needle, your names came up. And then we had this recording, and I remember thinking, gosh, there are so many gems between these two people, right? We're talking about all the work you've done in multiple jurisdictions to really till the soil for human potential to flourish. And then the conference happens and I meet you two, and I was absolutely blown away because you're even bigger in life and you know, more vivacious in person. And as I was talking to both of you, probably making jokes somewhere, I was like, Why aren't these two people hosting a podcast? So, you know, before I ask you why now, I want to know why not then? What was stopping you and holding you back from even approaching this journey?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's such a great question. I I'll say for me, and I'm curious, Shaka, because we never really talked about that. I mean, I think it was something we were always saying, yeah, eventually, eventually we'll get there. I think when we would really dive into deeper conversation about, okay, what do we actually need? Like, let's really just pull this together. It became, I and I I feel like this happens a lot in our lane of the work where it's like everything has to be perfect before you start. Like get everything together, make sure all the research is in, develop everything out, almost to the point of like every topic would have to be well researched, scripted, documented, done, vetted. You know what I mean? It it just became a huge task that felt almost unmanageable when you know you're so busy in the day-to-day already that it becomes this a bit of a daunting task. And I think the the weight of the responsibility in that felt like, oh man, oh yeah, if we have to speak to everything so perfectly and make sure everything is research cited, you know. It just felt like, no, I I could just uh let's write a research paper. You know, like it's just it just felt unattainable to me for a little while.
SPEAKER_03I always thought we should do it, and I wanted to do one, and I was like pretty sure we would eventually, but always counterbalancing that with all the work going on and how much effort it was taking to do everything and balance, you know, just being in the moment all the time made it hard to figure out like how do you actually stop long enough? And then what do you what do you talk about? Like there's so much to talk about now, you know, and it would almost seem like paralysis of analysis, where you just kind of it's easier not to do it because you're just like, I can't figure out where to even begin. And then when James passed away last year, we had had so many conversations that were so powerful. It just me and him sometimes, or us as a group and a staff, or us as a leadership team over the years, that I still hear those conversations. I still tap into them. It were more than a conversation, you know what I mean? And it it felt like, damn, we should have been able to do more of this sooner. But I would say, like, having Sam as a partner, Sam will just say, Well, no, but let's do it. And like then, like, okay, then start planning it and do it and kind of not get into that neutral and kind of stuck position. And so I it's been helpful, you know, in this partnership, especially even like we did a video for to lift up the work we were doing in Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_04I saw so many instances where young people were potentially thrown into the county jail, though juvenile hall because there was no other resource for them.
SPEAKER_03I want to see a world where people are happy and healthy and experience love. To get one shot at life, it should be fulfilling to engage in reshaping the future and creating a more sustainable life. We had talked about it for years. I literally, you know, all of us. I was like, we're not talking about this anymore. We're gonna make this happen. You know what I mean? And it was like, yes, actually, yes, we are. It took a few meetings to still everybody to even believe, like, okay, no, we're really gonna do this. So sometimes you need someone who also will kind of like snap through that that moment of pausing. So, Nathan, I think when we met you, for me, it was also like, oh, that was easy. You know, it was it was like, wow, we actually just did it. Because it wasn't, you know, I'm not we talk all the time. So the idea of talking itself wasn't just intimidating, but it was more so like everything else we just said prohibited us from just jumping in the pool and kind of figuring it out and swimming.
SPEAKER_02Shaka's absolutely right, Nathan. Like you are a huge part of why we're doing this and why we're doing it now. And so that uh I mean that needs to be recognized because you've been a huge part of us even getting here, right? And I'll say prior to meeting you, it was um, and this is you know, big up to Prevent Child Abuse America, who said, you know, come on, we want you guys to do this podcast, do this episode, and and we really didn't know exactly what we were getting ourselves into. And so when you and Luke popped up on the screen and you guys were really chill and talking us through and having some, you made it fun. And I remember like when we were talking with you guys, we got off and we were like, What wow, that was fun. I don't know what we said, but that was fun. Like it was a really fun, engaging conversation. You're right. Then when we met you, and I do remember where it was, you were telling jokes, we were at a bar.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_02And then it was just like when you said to us, Well, yeah, you guys should do this. You could you guys should just do it. And then it became, oh man, let's let's follow up, you know. But I feel like had we not had that experience, I don't think we'd be here right now.
SPEAKER_05Well, and I think that actually lends itself to this podcast and the work you're doing even right now and what it's trying to accomplish. Because to your point, Shaka, paralysis by analysis, it's the same thing as you're talking about overcooking the meat. So you have this idea, and then all of a sudden your own vulnerability kicks in, right? And you're like, Well, if only I prepare so much, if I chop and add and do all these things, I will it will go perfectly, but that is not how we experience life, right? Like it's actually the good parts are around the edges where it's actually not that, right? So getting that catalyst to just walk through the door and go, and the permission to be you, because it's weird, like we talk about being us is good enough in like most corners of my life, right? But then there's this one corner when you hit record, all of a sudden your heart rate goes, right? And you're like, What am I gonna say? Am I gonna black out again? So something in you guys changed, but then I think too, and this is a question for both of you the format. So you're having conversations with James, right? And then to me, there's this fear of these conversations almost disappearing because they're so good. So latching on to podcast, what what do you guys think that it gives you in this space?
SPEAKER_03You know, for me, it is it's another way to reach people, to connect with people. Our work is as much about thinking as about connecting and relating, and you know, just the power of human connection in, you know, in deep relationships is I've always felt is limited, and the written word doesn't always express the same dynamics. And so hearing someone's voice, hearing the motion in their voice, hearing the joy or the pain of what they're saying to me adds a lot to what we're trying to do because we're trying to tap into our full potential of who we actually deeply are, our deepest beliefs about the future and what that could look like. So you want to be able to do that and express yourself in a way where people can really feel you and you can be felt, right? And and a conversation isn't just you talking, you know, by yourself. It's very different because our work isn't just people talking by themselves. Our work is people listening to each other and together going on a journey, which requires more than one voice, it requires that engagement, right? And so this format felt like a great opportunity to play around with that because it's new. Like with you know, I would say for me, this is a big new thing. As much as I we talk and present and do this work in this way, you know, just thinking about like how this works, and you can stop in the middle and say, hey, I want to say something else, or just being able to be flexible in the moment um while you're recording is not the easiest thing, you know. And so but I do think it offers a lot in terms of the potential for the format and for what we're trying to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's interesting. So I've been a fan of podcasts, like I enjoy listening to podcasts, so that's always been a thing. Um it's interesting. I think for me, it it was a little bit more about in part of the work that we do, and we're trying to like really reimagine like the future, what systems look like, what does it look like to truly be rooted in community? What does it mean? Like what structural well-being, right? Our whole North Star, what does it mean to have everything we need, right? The intricate design, everything we need in society to make sure we're okay, right? And we talk about a lot in the work is having to work differently. And what does it mean to work differently? And and what attracted me to the podcast is actually the same thing that terrified me about the podcast, and it was bringing ourselves to it. So it's it's me in a way that you don't see me necessarily when I'm training or going through a curriculum or helping facilitate a difficult conversation you may be having, but it's not necessarily me and a colleague or friend talking, engaging, where it's a mixture of who I am, my own experiences, my own personal thoughts, um, really being on the table as part of who I am as a person and who we are in the work together and the things that we care about. And so for me, it's blurring those lines that I think is important, but also feels super vulnerable.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I want to pick up on that because there's so much that you guys have said in that that I think is really important to highlight. One of which is this idea that you're used to a controlled environment because you present to people with information, and while you're creating space for conversations, you've done that. So you're schooled in it, right? You know, you've done it so many times that you actually, I bet, can predict when there's probably gonna be people that are gonna disagree. Now, here it's almost stripping that layer away and then also making it intimate because you have a guest on, they say something, you have to be here right now. Right, you can't really script human interaction in a way that's worth listening to, right? Because people tell you things and it's good when you lean in and you're like, wait a minute, what does that mean for me, right?
SPEAKER_02Or jump off in unpredictable ways, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Which is another point I want to talk about because I've noticed you guys change, like I've been grateful to to work with you and kind of beside you on this journey because you have evolved over the course of what we were calling episode zero, right? And I've noticed not only you have kind of a respect for this medium, but beyond the medium are people that are listening more deeply and intimately than maybe you were used to in your own format, and that changes how you prepare. So, with that, I do want to ask you guys though, over the course of these couple of episodes, where have you seen yourself changing? What has it given you to actually do it personally?
SPEAKER_03You know, it's interesting what Sam was touching on about like sharing about yourself. Like for me, I I can share about the work part of myself easily. I feel very confident and capable in there. It was alarming to me actually how much I didn't realize I compartmentalize what I think about things because of what I'm trying to do. Like I could have a whole conversation and feel strongly about it, but not let that out because I'm trying to go in a particular direction and bring people together, build consensus. Like all the things that I've been doing for all these years also make it easy to not put your own position in the middle of it because that would muddy the waters for a lot of people. And so you end up kind of learning how to just navigate the circumstances, situations that you're in to the best of your abilities to can build consensus, maintain a sense of unity, but maybe not even be clear to your own self about how you actually feel, because that would mess that ability that you just achieved up. And so it's it was few took a few episodes for me to realize that I was doing it here. Like, oh, you're not sharing you what you really think because you're still doing this out of muscle memory of like, oh, this is the podcast is about this. Well, I'm not gonna say this whole other thing about myself because that's not what we're talking about. We're talking we're trying to, you know, really drive our thoughts and energy in this this really intentional way, which I still think is a powerful thing to do. And so I just feel like to me it was a a moment of like, oh wow, okay, like they have to find better balance with that. And so it's created a way to work on that because it was like, okay, the next episode, like I gotta talk about what this meant to me. And whereas I might not have forced myself to do that in other situations because it's not as important there as it is in this medium, maybe. Like, I think that comes out of my life where I sometimes just put how I feel aside because I see a larger situation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that was such a big part of this, I think, for me was also like the it was having us explore our partnership in a different way, which I was like, wow, okay, let's let's see how this goes. Because right, Shaka and I, we can we're very different people, we're very much aligned in where we want things to go, but how we get there can look really different, right? And so even in having why are you laughing?
SPEAKER_05Because, like, I mean I'm laughing because it's wild how it takes something like this for you to realize that. Yeah, we actually have to organize in a way for somebody else that's just beyond the microphone. And I think that's super interesting too because it makes me think about the word consensus. Yeah, like you just said, Shaka, build consensus, right? Like, how do you think this medium functions with the idea of consensus? Are you building consensus here? Is that the idea like what is this thing supposed to do?
SPEAKER_02This is so timely, so so interesting that because of the podcast, a group of colleagues that Shaq and I had worked with previously reached out because they were like, Oh my gosh, guys, it's been years, like let's reconnect. And we had a reconnection with them. And one of the things that that one of our friends said was, Wow, guys, you know what's so powerful about this? It's like hearing the conversation feels so necessary right now because it's you guys are showing that it's okay to talk about stuff and have different perspectives, and you'll even say, like, well, I don't totally agree with that. Here's why. Let me talk this through. This part is where we're aligned, this is where I see it a little differently, and saying, like, that's okay, right? And I think that felt super fulfilling hearing that from a uh a previous colleague of ours because I felt, man, that's what we're always telling people, right? Is like you don't have to be, you don't have to have a consensus. You have to agree to where we're going, right? We can appreciate that we're gonna get there a little differently, but knowing that we're values aligned and that we're heading in the same direction should allow folks to have healthy discourse, debate. It's okay. Debate to get to a better solution, you know? And I think that's what we're about. And if that has somehow come across and who we are as people in this platform, that that feels really good.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I actually that that makes me think this space is actually where people get to walk around the future that you're envisioning. And it's we talked about this a lot in the beginning, and I remember Chaka, I remember you kind of running into the wall of this. This isn't a commercial. This is it's just not, right? This is conversation, and that is like it's freeing, but it also then makes me it made me because I'm like, you know, a 40 now, geez, mid 40s white male who grew up in Wisconsin. And I run into you, Shaka. At uh I remember when we were in Portland, Oregon, and we were standing outside of this conference center, and I made a joke. I kept thinking, like, we are. Especially in this time, we're like taught to really focus in on the differences and why we potentially don't align. And there's something about what you guys are trying to do that just makes that so absurd that the the focusing on that and and pulls it apart. And it's made me think through my relationship with you about just how humans really do aspire for that future that you're talking about to really align the stars towards human potential. Because at the end of the day, we all want to make jokes beside each other and see each other and be in each other's presence, no matter where we came from. Like that's belonging. But to get to that, you're doing this, which is vulnerability. Right. I do think too, holding a microphone does come with great responsibility. Like I I just do. Like when we're we're talking to people, uh it is important. So I want to put that question to you because of this consensus building. Are you finding a different sense of responsibility now that we do hit record? We do polish these episodes and we put them out into the world.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I think the responsibility is to cultivate the practice. I don't I don't feel like we have to be controlling the message. I don't believe in art in that way. I believe like art is nature, it's a blend of structure and chaos. You know, it's not going to be the recipe that you just follow, yet there's something there that we can all touch and feel. And so for me, it's a very much not like, oh, in this podcast, we will achieve consensus, but we can create the type of contribution to consensus making. We can show how to navigate difficult conversations, intense moments. We can practice these things together. And each time it's a practice. There is no, you're it's never perfect. You know, you may spend two, three hours analyzing why you said something a certain way. Right? That's part of the practice.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03It offers the ability to really reflect on things and to think like, hmm, yeah, actually, we should talk more about that, right? And bring that in, versus you know, feel that it's something that has to be managed and controlled for. So the notion of consensus to me is that like, do we all need clean air, drinking water? You know what I mean? Like, if we touch on the raw essence, there's way more consensus than disagreement. We just have to continue to maintain our clarity about that, and that requires work, intention, practice. So creating a forum to talk about it. So maybe somebody's cruising through YouTube or whatever, and here's a podcast that turns them on and gives them something to play around with the next time they're navigating one of these tight ropes where they're trying to get through and trying to bring people together and not for lose sight of their values, right? Because all of us are, you know, we all have one shot at this thing called life. I I just that's my like belief. And so we don't get to hit the rewind or we don't get a reset button. We're helping each other along the way and hopefully leaving something for future generations to come. And so it's feels sacred, like a sacred circle, but in a new venue with new options to play with. We did radical imagination session, Nathan, and we asked people to think of what well-being smells like, right? Because smell hits your brain faster than your nervous system can control for. It it's into it's an immediate sensory blast to your most powerful, you know, source, right? To your brain. And it's like, wow, and then it comes in, you feel all these things. And so being able to talk about that is so different than just writing that out in a report, right? And then bringing somebody in who can, you know, go deeper, and it's almost like bringing it to life.
SPEAKER_02For me, I think because we've been doing racial justice work for so long, we felt the a huge weight of responsibility in navigating those conversations and bringing people into partnership that may have a few, you know, steps to take in order to really come into partnership. So I feel like as we've brought folks in, I guess I say that to say I've always felt really cautious. Like there's a huge, we have a huge responsibility in navigating these conversations and engaging with others in these conversations. So I'm comfortable in that because I feel like we do this with integrity and with that responsibility understood. I think where it feels the most vulnerable for me is when sometimes the conversations that we have slip into spaces that we don't typically talk about. And that's where I'm like, whoa, wait a minute, how did we end up here? And I think also what I've learned in partnership and doing this with Shaka is our conversations, like, don't get it twisted. We don't have a lot of time to just lean back and talk about all the things we want to talk about, right? Like we're pretty focused on the stuff we need to hammer out. So when we are having these conversations, and I've learned now that Shaka has this magical way of bringing me down some kind of rabbit hole I'm not prepared for. And I'm just going with the flow. And then suddenly I'm thinking, oh man, should we be talking about this? Like our this is not our area of expertise. Should we, but it's who we are, and it's like the multidimensional people engaging in conversation, but it feels super vulnerable in those moments.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, great point. And it makes me think about growth moments, right? Because I think I know exactly the moment you're talking about. Yep. Because I've had to listen to them about 8,000 times. But I I do want to know growth moments, right? Like, and specifically, because you don't grow into the thing you want to be until you're like, wait, I I feel something and I learn something about my humanity or capacity or something like that. So before we kick it back to you, like Shaka, were there any specific moments in this podcast where you're like, oh, that was a growth moment. I didn't know either we were going there or I didn't know we could go there or even do that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like every episode, man. I'm like, the hardest part is to listen. The first time was like, all right, it was hard to record it, but it was way harder to listen. I had to go for a walk. I had to like calm myself down. I had to literally start over because I was the critique in my head was so loud that I wasn't even listening anymore. I was like, what are you talking about? And it was like, all right, calm down. Like, you don't even know what you're reacting to. So there was just a nervous, like, I don't know. It was just like a whole energy thing around the fact that this is. I was on a swim team, and I, for whatever reason, when I was a kid, I got more nervous in those races than any other sports. And I played a lot of sports. And I still to this day, I'm not exactly sure why, but it felt similar around listening to the podcast. It was so much like energy, and I'm like, why is this? And I'm like, I just have to like calm down and relax. And so I found that like there was so many layers of that. So first it was listening to it, then it was while we're recording it. I need to like be in the moment, you know. And I'm listening to it, and I think I told Sam, I'm like, I don't even think I answered your question.
SPEAKER_04Like, yes, probably not.
SPEAKER_03No, and and but it was a learning, it's like, well, no, I don't want to do that. I'm gotta get out of my head and actually like stay in the moment of doing this, which I didn't, you know, I didn't anticipate it would be a challenge, but with all the energy and everything that comes with this, it was for me that was an important kind of recolle realization. Was like, oh, all right, stay in the moment, calm your energy down, you know, like take a deep breath. You can actually like pivot, you can do a lot because that's how I talk. I'm I'll go all over the place with people, which is makes it hard for me to do that in write in the written form. And it doesn't work so well. So it's also interesting to see, like, in this venue, we it, you know, there was a few conversations where Sarah was like, Well, how do we end up even talking about that? I don't know. And then we listen to it, it's like, oh, I I brought that up. Like, okay, uh damn, I didn't even realize that. So there's to me, there was a huge learning curve around just being present, being in the moment with this, still keeping it natural, but not being overwhelmed by my mind of you know, energy and everything else.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I it almost feels like too, and like what you said was dare to admire the results, dare to let them be who he, Shaka, was then and be okay with that. Because there's something about this format, or even swim, you know, competitions or whatever that were programmed to think that it will tell you something about yourself that will define you for you. You know what I mean? Like an adverse result. Let's say you swim team, you got killed, right? All of a sudden that you attach to your value, your self-determination, your future arcs, and even then listening to the self kind of waddle through something, maybe, or miss a question or not say the right thing. We have this kind of feedback loop where we try to avoid it because we're afraid, I think, of what it will build for us for our own future and our capacity. But that is not the case because you know, all of a sudden, listening to your conversations, once in a while I'll be like looking around, be like, who let the owl in here? Why why is there an owl flying around this audio? You know what I mean? Just because it takes us to a dreaming space, you know? So, and I'm sure, Sam, you have probably that very same experience, right? Like, was there a place where you were like, man?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 100%. Yeah, multiple spaces. And I can think of specific ones for Shaka, too. If it's if it's escaped them. But no, I mean, I think for me, it was it is it's many of the ways when you know, Shaka just said where we'll say, Oh my god, how did we get here? Why did I end up sharing this? Right. And it was because we were just going with the spirit of the conversation, the spirit was moving us in a particular way, and just leaning into that and and sharing, right? Sharing who you are, sharing your experiences, some of which can feel like really personal, right? And you know, so I think for me, I never expected to share anything about my immigration story here. It's like a tough time, right? For me, uh, just learning in my own evolution. And even that, I you know, I think I called Shaka after, like, whoa, wait, I don't know, I didn't want to really talk about that. I'm not sure that should be in there, you know. And in again, because I think part of it is opening a door to allow folks to see kind of who we are beyond who they know we are in the work, and you know, subjects that I'm used to talking about and can easily navigate, versus just sharing a little bit more about my own personal journey, which sometimes you feel you know, you want to kind of protect that a little bit. You're not sure how it may land, you want to be careful. You know, we talked on issues of domestic violence in the episode where that's the one where, you know, I said to Shaka, oh my God, why did I say that? And he's like, Oh, I don't know why you said that, but I think it was good. And then we listened back and I said, Oh my God, I said it because you brought it up. You were the one. And so it's just so, like you said, it's a trusting the journey and it, the journey of this process and the journey of the conversation, just really leaning into it. I told Shaka, like, I'm so used to hearing Shaka, Shaka's stories of growing up, and I'm hearing about this football guy who's like crushing people on the field, right? So we had an episode, and he said, Oh, you know, I was young and in love, and that I was like, Whoa, who's that guy? Right? Like, and it was really sweet. And it was just like, oh yeah, totally. People should know all parts of us, right? Because it's who we are. And I just thought it's it's kind of beautiful.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Sam, what you were alluding to, it was one of my favorite places on this entire podcast where I think as a group we learned something. And this is when you took us to Puerto Rico, you took us to the ocean, you took us to a community that was hopping, that was going through something, and people were on the streets. And I remember that as we recorded that, starting to embed the sounds of experience where we were learning that we can take people places here, and it's really important because things are happening in these places that we relate to, and that's the whole point of this medium is to let people walk with you through it. And that to me was one of my favorite moments on the show. And I remember when we stopped recording, we all looked at each other as if it were like something bad had happened. Yeah. And I remember having to talk you guys off a ledge and be like, no, no, no. Listen, I know it feels that way, but this was actually an excellent conversation because we just went somewhere we weren't comfortable with. We've we talked about things that actually are related to what you do, but as humans, we are like the center point of all of the crossover of these things we're trying to undo. They land in us and we just pretend like they occur in categories, but they don't. You take them home with you. That immigration story, you know what I mean? Like those sports stories. You I was shocked, Shaka, when you were talking about scared straight. I only saw that on TV as a thing. I didn't think it was a real thing. And then you tell me the story of being taken through this program without your mother's consent, and I'm blown away. Like, I didn't even know that that was a possibility, you know? And so I think that this journey has been so fraught with us exposing and growing that I can't help but think like when you guys look back, do you have favorite moments from this journey?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I think the growth of it, like telling different stories in this venue and and hearing Stam tell stories that I know are important and the power of storytelling, right? Like, I fundamentally believe that's how humans have shared information for millennia. You know, generations upon generations have sat to hear stories and tell stories, you know, and so those stories are things I I carry with me and they help me and through navigating difficult times. And I feel like there's like I have this hope that we're contributing you know, our stories and our experience to others who will maybe never get to fully meet or know. But I was still reflecting on that when we just looked at like number of downloads and where in the world the people listened in from, you know, and just like, yeah, this is real, you know, like somebody out there is really tuning into this. And literally each time this momentum grows stronger. So um, I don't know if there's just one particular time, but it's almost like the all of the stories and the growth is a big highlight, and that we're doing this, that we've got past the hump of like, ah, are we really gonna do this? To like, okay, you know, and now there's some episodes we'd have met Nathan. So I'm like, no, no, no. You know, we gotta we have some something here. I have so many ideas for what we could do together.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, um, you know, I kind of my initial thought on that is just like sky's the limit, you know. I think that we're building a future that we can't see yet. And I think all the different pathways that we're touching, I we there's no roadmap for where we're going. And I'm really strongly believing that every step forward is taking us exactly where we need to be. So I almost don't want to limit the potential of where I see things, but I know that being in a creative space, talking about things that need to be discussed, demonstrating and practicing the ways of being together, all feel like it's just the right space for us to hold right now. So I think wherever it takes us, we'll be exactly where it's supposed to take us.
SPEAKER_05Makes me think of Back to the Future.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, we are just, you know, really glad that Nathan could join us today and have this conversation and dig into a little behind the scenes of what this experience has been like for us. So, Nathan, thank you for joining us. It's been my pleasure.
SPEAKER_01This was fun, guys. I appreciate the conversation.
SPEAKER_03There is a bright future on deck, and we hope this podcast is a reminder that you all have a meaningful part in a great responsibility ability. It's the opportunity of a lifetime. You can download Future on Deck wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to like and subscribe and leave a comment to us about your own vision for the future. Help us get the word out.
SPEAKER_02So if you're new here, come on in. This is a space where we all belong. Hey, it's Sam. In case you missed it, our documentary Youth Justice Reimagined, a story of community innovation and collaboration, is out now. If you've been moved by the conversations on this podcast, this film really brings it all to life. You'll hear directly from young people and advocates who are reimagining youth justice in Los Angeles and building the Department of Youth Development from the ground up. It's powerful, it's honest, and it shows what's possible when we lead with our humanity. Head to our website or check the link in the show notes to watch. After you do, be sure to come back and tell us what's really stayed with you. It's critical to our practice.